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Author Topic: Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail  (Read 2118 times)

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Offline Chameleon257

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Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail
« on: November 03, 2015, 02:58:16 PM »
My suggestions below with reasons and examples;

Recon: 4-5 pilots 200 Ton Max 1 Drop on Conquest mode.
Objective to win:  Recon Team must win by destroying all enemy mechs OR Win by Ticket Count
Reasoning; Reconnaissance is not meant to be a straight up fight it is scouting for an assault or raid it is 90% of the time undetected and stealth or if it is detected it is either driven off or foiled.  With the mode being in Conquest a team can simulate being stealthy and avoiding contact while trying to take points in the conquest mode simulating recon of those points without combat as a requirement.

Example1: 
     Team A;Defense; WVK-7K, WVK-7K, LCT-1E, LCT-1E, RVN-3L=185 Tons.
     Team B: Offence; LCT-1E, LCT-3S, LCT-1E, LCT-1E, LCT-3S= 100 Tons.
     Team A Strategy:  Wolverines move to and defend what they think the most likely point the Recon Team will hit and set up to intercept.  The 2 Locust and Raven move to Counter Capture and Capture points to delay or reverse recon gains from Team B.
     Team B Strategy:  Moving as a team the 5 Locusts move to secure as many points as possible and counter cap the defensive teams gain.

Description; This mode lends itself to more realistic an more diverse strategy then just skirmish with the other team.  The mode is quick just like scout missions are in the real world and more realistic. This also sets NBT apart from MRBC and RHOD leagues because there is an objective other than just killing the other team and the ways to go about this are limited only be the imagination or the availability of mechs from the Automation.  This is also a more determined mode as a unit commander knows what the drop tonnage is there by knows what to plan for.

Mech Theft Raid; 1 Drop 5-8 pilots, Assault Mode, Tonnage 250 to 400 Tons without recon.  Attacker chooses tonnage up to 500 tons and map if a successful recon was completed on the same planet within a 5 day period.
Objective to win:  Assaulting team must destroy all defending mechs OR Capture point on assault map.
Reasoning; Mech Theft would presume you are attacking a Depot where Mechs are held either in a state of repair or garrisoned and maintained.  The assault mode means as the Attacking team your objective is to capture the asset.  The defensive team is trying to stop this by protecting the asset setting a defensive perimeter a more realistic way of handling this raid type.  The tonnage and attacking team getting to choose because of a successful recon gives advantage to attacking team by setting the terms by which the defender must defend.  This makes reconnaissance raids important. 

Example: 
     Team A: Attacker; Succeeded in a recon raid 3 days earlier.  On an Urban planet chooses Crimson Straights at 500 Tons.  Reasoning is the Garrison is full strength and the attacker wants to force heavier mechs to come out to defend garrison point, there by maybe weakening the garrison to medium and lights in preparations for Guerilla raids later.  This gives commanders more control of how they want to do operations on planets and makes the back end even more strategic.  This also possibly evens the odds since the defenders have an advantage of being able to set up lines and dig in. 

     Team B: Defender; Chooses mechs from their garrison for 8 pilots 3 Heavy mechs 2 Medium Mechs and 3 Light mechs.

     Battle:  Defending commander decides to set up defensive lines 500 Meters from the base capture point.  The attacker has to destroy ALL defending mechs or capture the base to win the battle. So they start on their way to the objective watching for enemy mechs on the way.  The defensive commander decides to have one of the lights go and scout to see where the enemy is coming from and possibly set up their lines better to fit the direction the enemy is coming from.  The scout gets spotted and legged and destroyed.  Now if this was PGI's world the Attackers could just sit back for the remaining time and win the game.  However NBT game you have to destroy all enemy defenders OR capture the asset.  So the attackers move on knowing they've been compromised by the scout they take an extra few minutes to move their in bound area to something else maybe catching the defenders off balance.  The attackers engage the defenders destroying 5 more mechs leaving 2 lights left these defending lights move off and escape the attackers.  Now here is where there are options.  The attackers could chase the lights down and destroy them, move into the asset and capture the point if they did this the defending mechs are saved and returned to the garrison however they could be stolen of course because of the successful mech theft.  The defending lights can in PGI world go to the attackers base and cap it however in NBT world this is a loss for the Defender as it isn't the defenders job to capture an asset but to defend the asset.

Description; This battle represents a more realistic version of PGI and Skirmish deathmatch and shows what can be accomplished with a different set of expectations and rules.  The defending commander has multitude of decisions that can be make.  Dig in fortify, dig in fortify and scout, go out and meet the enemy and maybe catch them off guard.  This gives an advantage to the defender but realistically this is always the case in the real world anyway unless the attacking force has good intel.  You can save assets as an attacker or defender if the battle doesn't go your way there by giving even more options to both teams on the back end automation. 

Industry Theft Raid:  1 Drop 250 - 400 tons, 5 to 8 Pilots, on Assault mode.  Successful recon from the past 5 days on the same planet the attacker can choose tonnage up to 500 tons and map.

Played the same as the above Mech Theft Raid.  You are capturing an asset IE Factory or industry node.

Guerilla raid: random number of drops 3 to 5, 5-8 pilots tonnage from 250 to 450 on Assault mode played the same as Mech Theft, Industry Theft; You are capturing an area to cause panic and destruction to scare civilian population and attrition of enemy forces.  If the Attacker has a successful recon from the past 5 days Attacker can decide 3, 5 or 7 drops, tonnages and maps.

The reasoning for all of these in Assault is it forces the objectives and makes camping for the attacker a non starter.  Makes the battles objective based as they would be in real life and gives options for tactical strategies as well as gives options to force commanders. 

Also if the assault mode gets stale as it probably could.  You could use conquest mode select what base is the capture point and fight over that cap point instead using a different set of rules.

Planetary assaults can also be played in Assault mode as the objective for the attacker is securing a drop zone for the next advance on the capital of the planet.  Same rules would apply but more tonnage could be assigned as with all battles successful recon gives an edge to the attacker to offset the defensive edge they get for being able to set up lines of defense.

My thoughts anyway and suggestions. 

As obviously we no longer have a horse in this race I thought I would spur some suggestions that might get more people interested rather than just mindless skirmish. 

I hope it wasn't TL-DR

Cham

e cælo, veniamus .

Offline Chameleon257

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Re: Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 04:18:30 PM »
Also in addition

Political Instability:  should mean the house would institute Martial Law and come down on the citizenry. The income from the planet should not be given however that shouldn't stop the house from placing more military on planet to quell uprising and stabilize the house designated government.  Garrison fees should be triple or even quadruple due to bringing personal from off world to maintain the garrison until the planet could be stabilized. 

The current system now you just recon or maybe not.  Guerilla raid until the planet goes into PI.  Then maybe a few mech theft raids or industry raids.  Then planetary assault comes because the house can't put mechs down because of the way the rules are now.

e cælo, veniamus .

Offline Xavier

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Re: Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 07:29:20 PM »
My suggestions below with reasons and examples;

Recon: 4-5 pilots 200 Ton Max 1 Drop on Conquest mode.
Objective to win:  Recon Team must win by destroying all enemy mechs OR Win by Ticket Count
Reasoning; Reconnaissance is not meant to be a straight up fight it is scouting for an assault or raid it is 90% of the time undetected and stealth or if it is detected it is either driven off or foiled.  With the mode being in Conquest a team can simulate being stealthy and avoiding contact while trying to take points in the conquest mode simulating recon of those points without combat as a requirement.

Example1: 
     Team A;Defense; WVK-7K, WVK-7K, LCT-1E, LCT-1E, RVN-3L=185 Tons.
     Team B: Offence; LCT-1E, LCT-3S, LCT-1E, LCT-1E, LCT-3S= 100 Tons.
     Team A Strategy:  Wolverines move to and defend what they think the most likely point the Recon Team will hit and set up to intercept.  The 2 Locust and Raven move to Counter Capture and Capture points to delay or reverse recon gains from Team B.
     Team B Strategy:  Moving as a team the 5 Locusts move to secure as many points as possible and counter cap the defensive teams gain.

Description; This mode lends itself to more realistic an more diverse strategy then just skirmish with the other team.  The mode is quick just like scout missions are in the real world and more realistic. This also sets NBT apart from MRBC and RHOD leagues because there is an objective other than just killing the other team and the ways to go about this are limited only be the imagination or the availability of mechs from the Automation.  This is also a more determined mode as a unit commander knows what the drop tonnage is there by knows what to plan for.

Conquest had come up previously as a potential alternate game mode. Not in any RP context, but as a way to break up the monotony. The rule that is in place for the mission-play parts of PAs (which is the same as for ties in other drops), however, would remain: at least half the opponent's tonnage must be destroyed in order to log a win.

Quote
Mech Theft Raid; 1 Drop 5-8 pilots, Assault Mode, Tonnage 250 to 400 Tons without recon.  Attacker chooses tonnage up to 500 tons and map if a successful recon was completed on the same planet within a 5 day period.
Objective to win:  Assaulting team must destroy all defending mechs OR Capture point on assault map.
Reasoning; Mech Theft would presume you are attacking a Depot where Mechs are held either in a state of repair or garrisoned and maintained.  The assault mode means as the Attacking team your objective is to capture the asset.  The defensive team is trying to stop this by protecting the asset setting a defensive perimeter a more realistic way of handling this raid type.  The tonnage and attacking team getting to choose because of a successful recon gives advantage to attacking team by setting the terms by which the defender must defend.  This makes reconnaissance raids important. 

Example: 
     Team A: Attacker; Succeeded in a recon raid 3 days earlier.  On an Urban planet chooses Crimson Straights at 500 Tons.  Reasoning is the Garrison is full strength and the attacker wants to force heavier mechs to come out to defend garrison point, there by maybe weakening the garrison to medium and lights in preparations for Guerilla raids later.  This gives commanders more control of how they want to do operations on planets and makes the back end even more strategic.  This also possibly evens the odds since the defenders have an advantage of being able to set up lines and dig in. 

     Team B: Defender; Chooses mechs from their garrison for 8 pilots 3 Heavy mechs 2 Medium Mechs and 3 Light mechs.

     Battle:  Defending commander decides to set up defensive lines 500 Meters from the base capture point.  The attacker has to destroy ALL defending mechs or capture the base to win the battle. So they start on their way to the objective watching for enemy mechs on the way.  The defensive commander decides to have one of the lights go and scout to see where the enemy is coming from and possibly set up their lines better to fit the direction the enemy is coming from.  The scout gets spotted and legged and destroyed.  Now if this was PGI's world the Attackers could just sit back for the remaining time and win the game.  However NBT game you have to destroy all enemy defenders OR capture the asset.  So the attackers move on knowing they've been compromised by the scout they take an extra few minutes to move their in bound area to something else maybe catching the defenders off balance.  The attackers engage the defenders destroying 5 more mechs leaving 2 lights left these defending lights move off and escape the attackers.  Now here is where there are options.  The attackers could chase the lights down and destroy them, move into the asset and capture the point if they did this the defending mechs are saved and returned to the garrison however they could be stolen of course because of the successful mech theft.  The defending lights can in PGI world go to the attackers base and cap it however in NBT world this is a loss for the Defender as it isn't the defenders job to capture an asset but to defend the asset.

Description; This battle represents a more realistic version of PGI and Skirmish deathmatch and shows what can be accomplished with a different set of expectations and rules.  The defending commander has multitude of decisions that can be make.  Dig in fortify, dig in fortify and scout, go out and meet the enemy and maybe catch them off guard.  This gives an advantage to the defender but realistically this is always the case in the real world anyway unless the attacking force has good intel.  You can save assets as an attacker or defender if the battle doesn't go your way there by giving even more options to both teams on the back end automation. 

Given the limited number of gameplay modes in MWO, we wanted to save Assault for the Siege Assault phase of PAs. Granted, that means that PAs actually need to reach that stage before one side runs out of mechs...

Quote
Industry Theft Raid:  1 Drop 250 - 400 tons, 5 to 8 Pilots, on Assault mode.  Successful recon from the past 5 days on the same planet the attacker can choose tonnage up to 500 tons and map.

Played the same as the above Mech Theft Raid.  You are capturing an asset IE Factory or industry node.

Guerilla raid: random number of drops 3 to 5, 5-8 pilots tonnage from 250 to 450 on Assault mode played the same as Mech Theft, Industry Theft; You are capturing an area to cause panic and destruction to scare civilian population and attrition of enemy forces.  If the Attacker has a successful recon from the past 5 days Attacker can decide 3, 5 or 7 drops, tonnages and maps.

The reasoning for all of these in Assault is it forces the objectives and makes camping for the attacker a non starter.

Yes, but it virtually codifies camping for the defender. If Skirmish battles now are boring, wait until you see what happens when the defender never has to move.

Quote
  Makes the battles objective based as they would be in real life and gives options for tactical strategies as well as gives options to force commanders. 

Also if the assault mode gets stale as it probably could.  You could use conquest mode select what base is the capture point and fight over that cap point instead using a different set of rules.

Planetary assaults can also be played in Assault mode as the objective for the attacker is securing a drop zone for the next advance on the capital of the planet.  Same rules would apply but more tonnage could be assigned as with all battles successful recon gives an edge to the attacker to offset the defensive edge they get for being able to set up lines of defense.

My thoughts anyway and suggestions. 

As obviously we no longer have a horse in this race I thought I would spur some suggestions that might get more people interested rather than just mindless skirmish. 

I hope it wasn't TL-DR

Cham


Again, the problem is the game. NBT-MWO's "alpha" is intended to see what needs changed in NBT to fit with MWO, and if it's even possible. We certainly intend to makes changes (some significant) the next time around, but wholesale replacement of Skirmish with Assault and Conquest probably is not one of them (apart from mixing Conquest into minor battles). I understand the intent of your suggestions (which are welcome, thank you) but again, the problem I see is the game itself. Hell, if we could even get something like the CTF and KOTH games like those that existed in MW4, we could probably do something more interesting. We could certainly ask PGI for that, but I don't recommend anyone hold their breath for any tangible result from that.

Offline Xavier

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Re: Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 07:31:33 PM »
The existing GRaid/PI rules need revamped; Dervish imposed a new system in Classic (that isn't in place here, altho we had talked about it among the devs) that makes PI much harder to achieve, and virtually impossible on lower-industry planets. I would like to have something in-between the current system and that, and we will have something different in the next league. Just not clear on what it is right now.

Offline Chameleon257

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Re: Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 09:39:59 AM »
Quote
Yes, but it virtually codifies camping for the defender. If Skirmish battles now are boring, wait until you see what happens when the defender never has to move.

Isn't that the point you're coming to get my stuff I'm defending and digging in to make sure you're not going to take it :)

Otherwise I'm an attacker just seems to me the death match is only in because yeah this is a game there is no real penalty for losing.

e cælo, veniamus .

Offline Devlin Cognito

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Re: Suggestions I gave Xavier and Tundra but with a bit more detail
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2015, 12:11:30 PM »
Makes sense, so attackers have three times the tonnage of the defenders if you let defenders just dig in?

I dont mind the idea of conquest being used, even if only to give teams another objective to win.
Time to get out of town before I slept with Gods wife